theatokos | Even more thoughts on the formula thing and how it intersects with a bigger feminism

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Even more thoughts on the formula thing and how it intersects with a bigger feminism

It's easy to get all judgmental about women who 'choose' to use formula. But the more I read the less inclined I am to see this as the appropriate place for blame. Nor do I think that women have as much choice as we're led to believe.

I know there are women who choose of their own accord to use formula, women who have perfectly functioning breasts and access to health care and support. But I think that formula use is much like the c-section divide between women. I think these 'mommy wars' are encouraged by The Powers That Be (like media and corporations, et al) to keep women at each others' throats in order to divert that energy from the actual issues.

Many women have to go back to work shortly after giving birth. Pumping can be hard and demoralizing. The US has no maternity leave plan, lactation support is generally hard to come by. Even in my former workplace, an organization that was as family friendly as I could ever hope a place to be, I ended up pumping in the bathroom. Basically, US law, business, and social life don't encourage breastfeeding, or family life for that matter. If WIC and other sources provide it for free, why wouldn't you use it?

It's just like the cascade of interventions that often lead to c-sections. I have read articles on women who schedule c-sections, and it's always a judgmental screed about how those women don't have their priorities straight. If you are a career woman, trying to do it all, high powered business may not wait for you to birth when the baby's ready. But I'm guessing that those women are the tiny minority. The rise in c-sections has a strong correlation to medical practices and attitudes. But the Medical-Industrial Complex doesn't want the boat rocked, or their bottom lines challenged, or their subsidies from formula companies taken away.

In the end, keeping women blaming each other is just a divide and conquer technique keeping us from the issues that really matter. C-sections and formula aren't evil in and of themselves; it's the much larger and much more insidious practices of our governments and big business that places women and families in positions where they think they have a choice, but do we? Really? An isle of 36 different shampoo choices isn't really a choice. 10 different kinds of formula isn't a choice.

I also think that because of the lack of power and authentic choice in the lives of most women (and here I also want to add families of color and low-economic status), excoriating other choices is a way for them to feel safe and like they made the Right decision. In a world of uncertainty, well, at least I didn't use formula, so my kid won't be diabetic/obese/stupid/insert fear here. I would never put my baby at risk, unlike those dirty hippies who have home births, so my baby will just fine.

We're all just trying to do the best by ourselves and our families, but damn, the deck is stacked against us. This also relates back to the rape post. Women/other marginalized people blaming other women/marginalized people. This only divides us and prevents us from making actual positive change.

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Yep.

Yesterday I heard on the news about a bill that passed in the Iowa Senate to require employers to provide time and a space other than a bathroom for women to pump milk. The two people featured arguing about it were women senators--one saying, "I just don't really see what the issue is. Have you really heard from people saying this is a problem? What's the big deal?" And the other saying that she had indeed heard from some people, but more than that she had had human rights people involved with the bill.

It has been eons since I breast-fed and I breast-fed Mike (though not exclusively) until he was 3. (A hospital nurse accused me of being from Appalachia and my own -granted dysfunctional family - thought I had lost my mind and was an exhibitionist).

HOWEVER, I worked out of my own home and I had the ability to do this. I tried breast bumps and remember feeling horrible -- more like Bossy the Cow than a concerned human mother.

You are right that all marginalized groups can be set against each other and kept from looking at the real problem -- our place as equal and worthwhile human beings.

Whatever works, you do it, and get on with your life.

"more like Bossy the Cow than a concerned human mother"

Number 1 reason I stopped breast feeding. That and J started eating cereal at 3 months and wanted cereal far more than he wanted milk. I swear, the kid grew teeth early in hopes he would get steak.

Sounds like you've got a Prince on your hand. Mine loved the breast,but he's been thinking he's king of the world since he was born.

I've wondered if early teeth development is a sign of needing more solid food early, whereas B is slooooooow to get teeth and prefers the boob anyway. I wonder if someone's done a study on that.

I don't know. J treated milk like a chaser after a "real" meal of food.

^ ^ ^

Yeah, that. To everything you said.

Hi, I am here once again through

seaivy's friends page (always an interesting read). I just had to say that your posts on breastfeeding/formula are so right on.

And you are so right about the wider issues. Maybe the next wave of feminism should concentrate on sisterhood. It will be impossible to make any other progress regarding the patriarchy until we've mastered the first step: wiping out the divisions it has encouraged between us.

We will want to care for each other as we need to do for ourselves: doing the best we can with the lives we find ourselves in.

Hi! Thanks for stopping by!

As passionate as I feel about natural living and breastfeeding, it is more important to me that we don't make the lives of women and families more difficult than they already are. Just as oppressions are interwoven, so are the solutions - and this makes it so much more complicated. If abortion were only about morality, if rape was only about 'sluts', if infant well being was only about breastmilk v formula, how much easier would it be to be Right and Solve Everything. But nothing's that cut and dry.

Yup yup yup. There are a LOT of forces leading to formula use and the hig c-section rate. The glib answers that are thrown at people ("just have a homebirth," "just breastfeed") aren't the answer. They're also a way, as you said, for us to feel in control: "I didn't have a sick kid/kid with autism/traumatic birth because I breastfed/didn't vaccinate/had a UC" is a short step away from "People who have bad outcomes deserve them because they made 'bad' choices."

And the other thing is, for some (not all) of those women, the less natural choice IS an educated choice. Sure, not everyone knows the risks and downsides of formula or surgical birth, but some of us do, and make that choice anyway, because it has a net gain for us. If you're a woman with a serious mental illness, and coordinating safe meds and supply issues to make breastfeeding work is too much for you to handle, formula isn't going to make you a bad mom.

Absolutely. There is complex dance we have to do to raise our families and take care of our mental and physical health.

Women/other marginalized people blaming other women/marginalized people. This only divides us and prevents us from making actual positive change.

and from blessed_oak:

Maybe the next wave of feminism should concentrate on sisterhood. It will be impossible to make any other progress regarding the patriarchy until we've mastered the first step: wiping out the divisions it has encouraged between us.

Those two statements make me want to stand on my chair and scream "YES!".

It's only by coming together as women and loving and supporting each other can we make true progress. And the time when we need to support each other the most? When the woman across from you has made a choice that is different or at odds with your own personal philosophy or politics. That's the woman who deserves and needs your most generous love.

I consider myself a feminist, and I think that the women's movement, modern medical technology, and dare I say it, the profit motive, have done a lot to make women's lives better. I think that this is something that people in the developed world, and the US especially, forget, because the bad old days are so far away. Caveat: none of what I say excuses pushing formula in countries where there is no reliable source of clean water.

My grandmother had 8 children. The first 7 were born at home with a midwife. Her firstborn was severely mentally handicapped due to oxygen deprivation at birth, something that was taken for granted at the time, but might not have happened if she had had access to modern medical technology. She breastfed her 8 children, but died at 45 of breast cancer, when her youngest child was 4. Breastfeeding did not save her, but modern medical technology might have - and incidentally, the loss of their mother scarred all her children for life.

My own mother was the first in her family to go to college, but she was fired when she got married due to a marriage bar, and then again when she had her first child, because in her second job women with children were automatically fired. She was and is a great mother and grandmother, but she is a woman who needs to work outside the home. She was quite unhappy for periods of my childhood, and it was a relief to all of us when she went back to work full time. All her childbirths (in hospital) were drug-free, because in those days, drugs weren't offered so she didn't have the choice. She doesn't view her birthing experiences as empowering or special - just as pain you have to go through to have a baby. She cloth diapered her children, not for the sake of the environment, but because in those days there were no disposables. She sees the disposable diaper as one of the great inventions of modern science. She breastfed all of us, because everyone did it in those days, and she didn't have a job, so she had the time. She enjoyed it, but has no guilt about weaning us to cow's milk at 9 months because we started biting.

Bottom line, the women's movement, modern medical technology and products such as disposable diapers and formula have more often than not provided women with choices. I think we patronize women when we automatically assume that the choices they make are choices made because they are brainwashed or ignorant, rather than choices that make their lives and those of their children better.

I in no way want to return to a time before the availability of safe c-sections, antibiotics, or washing machines. Women's lives the world over would be much improved by good health care, birth control, and running water. I don't think it's an either/or situation: I don't think that we either suck it up and capitulate to companies that view humans as merely an opportunity for profit, allow for pollutants to be part of our foods, and birth our babies based on the convenience of the hospitals; OR that in an effort to be All Natural that we give up modern medicine, pain killers, pre-made food, and running water. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

But I will not say that the 'Free Market' is what's best for living beings. Sure, it encourages innovation and I suppose has contributed to giving more people a more leisurely life. But it's also examples like the Baby Food Industry that shows us their bottom line is more important than the lives of the babies they aim to be feed.

I was under no illusions you wanted to go back in time ;-) I guess my point is just that choices like formula and epidurals and c-sections are just that, choices. And the fact that many many women choose them when given the opportunity is a signal that these choices have real benefits to women as well as costs, and we should recognize that. For example, I refuse to believe that the majority of women in the developed world are so gullible as to believe that formula is healthier than breastfeeding. But they use formula rather than breastfeed, because it gives them more time, to spend with their older kids, to go to work, to sleep, or to do stuff that "no good mother" should do like going boozing with their mates.

I do think these choices have benefits, but I also think they may not be actual choices. If you work two jobs, what choice do you have? But you know, we also choose things for convenience or preference, knowing it's not the best for us - fast food, processed food, etc. Formula IS NOT as good as breast milk. You know this and I know this. Choosing it doesn't make anyone a bad person or mother.

And seriously, read this book if you think I'm exaggerating. I don't think that women in developed countries know what they're getting into. It's not because they're stupid- it's because many are illiterate or undereducated and believe the PAID sponsored health professionals who tell them it's good for their baby.

I think most everything in the USA is geared towards keeping people at work for long hours.

I had a friend come over from Europe. At first she couldn't believe how many luxuries we had. What she was talking about was drive through banking, having groceries delivered to your door, upscale restaurants that delivered food, etc. Then...she finally got it.

Everything in the country is meant to accommodate and encourage people to work VERY long hours. We have drive through banking because that means you can eat your lunch in the car, take business calls, and do your banking, and still be back at your desk in 20 minutes because that's all you can take for lunch. You commuted an hour to get to work, you arrived early, you'll stay late. On your way home, you'll pick up dinner (calling them while you are on the way) because there's no way you or your husband have enough energy to cook something.

Breast feeding? Yeah...you're lucky you had time for the procreation.

And this is one of the things I love about Wales. Almost everything is closed on Sunday. Inconveniencing at times, but peaceful! And it's SO NICE to know that 99% of the community is getting a day off together. I would much rather be on the poor side of things and have time for my family, friends and other things, than loads of money and not be able to enjoy it.

This was true of Norway when I lived there, and it was very nice for most Norwegians. It did suck for the Muslim minority and the eight practicing Jews. When it's blue laws, it's bad.

Great rant, and I completely agree. Women are not to blame. Whatever choice a woman makes should be honored, especially by her sisters. Blaming each other is sadly understandable though. Such behavior is a classic feature of oppressed groups who turn on each other instead of concentrating on fighting their oppressors.

My comments are placed in the context of the maternity services here in the UK. I am familiar with but not totally conversant with the situation in the States and so feel that I can only speak fully of what I know.

To set the scene a little, here in the UK women who are usually in employment are entitled by law to paid time off for all of her antenatal care and classes and to nine months of fully paid maternity leave and assurance that their job will be there for them when they are ready to return to work whenever that might be. It is not uncommon for a woman to have her nine months paid leave then prolong this until she wishes to return to work. It is also common for women to then have a second pregnancy which means that her pattern goes – nine months fully paid leave, three months partially paid leave during which she becomes pregnant again then nine months fully paid leave with her job absolutely secure for her return. At which time if she is breastfeeding her employer must provide suitable premises and equipment including refrigeration/freezer facilities and paid time off during the working day to either feed her baby in the workplace or express breastmilk as and when she needs to. Lower income families receive free vitamins supplements, milk, juice and fruit and vegetables during pregnancy until the child is five years old via a voucher scheme. All women receive health in pregnancy grants when they are 25 weeks pregnant and lower incomed women receive extra grants to pay for baby equipment. All women with children under nineteen receive child benefit payments and all families with an income of less than £50,000 receive weekly or monthly payments of tax credits to boost income. All women with an income below this level are also able to have 85% of childcare costs paid by the government if they wish to work or return to education. All maternity care is provided free of charge to all women. All women are educated by their midwife as to the practicalities and health benefits of breastfeeding and receive one to one breastfeeding support if they want it in the postnatal period from a midwife they know.

Despite all of these measures being in place breastfeeding rates are not great in the majority of the UK. To me this demonstrates the systemic marginalisation of women in society. The objectification of women’s bodies and the sexualisation of breasts are so deeply ingrained that the oppression of women is being sustained by women themselves without them realising what is happening. They perceive that they have choices but their choices are stemming from the idea that women’s bodies are inherently flawed machines unable to birth or feed their children themselves. So we are given formula milk and caesarean sections as supposed choices but what kind of choice is this that women choose dangerous surgical procedures and unnatural milk substitutes in place of their own ability to give birth and breastfeed?

Whilst I am deeply sorry for women who were not supported to feed or birth their children themselves, the truth is that with the right support they probably could have in all but a few cases and it is important to acknowledge this if women are to regain the real power of their bodies and support one another in making real choice accessible to all women.

HOT SHIT. UK for the win! As an American, I am dumbfounded. And sadly, I don't think we'll be eligible for most of those benefits over here!

I also just had an idea about autonomy - and how perhaps Western societies view physical autonomy in ways that belie actual autonomy. Like, in an effort to gain more physical freedom choosing formula makes sense, but then you'd be at the mercy of the formula manufacturers and their (mis)information. Is that really being autonomous? I would say no.

Absolutely. An individual cannot achieve autonomy unless they are aware of what underlies and influences their decision making. It is not real choice to put yourself at the mercy of the medical establishment, formula companies and a popular culture which objectifies women.

I get so tired of hearing about formula vs. breast milk... staying at home vs. working... natural births vs. c-sections... It's all just another way for women to judge women. I honestly don't care how anyone chooses to raise THEIR child... it's their responsibility & no one is above anyone else to sit & say "well I do x,y,z, with my kid" like the other person is any less of a parent/mother because of the 'choices' they make.

I find it strange that the majority of women who are judgemental about these things are the 'crunchy' type. I've never once said to myself or anyone else "OMG that mom breastfeeds - can't she cut the cord already!" but as soon as someone hears you are going to formula feed your baby they want to hand you all sorts of advice you didn't ask for & assume you simply arn't educated on the topic.

There are multiple ways to feed your kid & eventually they will all grow up to feed themselves what they want anyways.

This is why I like LJ. It lets me get all my opinions out so I don't have to tell other people what I think.

After living in Berkeley, my experience has been that super crunchy, very very 'liberal' people tend to be more judgmental than more conservative people. I knew some people who wouldn't be friends with someone if they were Republican! I don't think they were consciously aware of this, but still.

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Even more thoughts on the formula thing and how it intersects with a bigger feminism

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