![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Rape is never the victims fault
Women say some rape victims should take the blame
WHAT? I don't even need to read this entire article to know that women have internalized the hateful misogony of the patriarchy and suffer from self-loathing ideology. Why do women hate each other like this? Rape is NEVER the victim's fault. Even if you're comatose from drinking or you're walking naked down the street. Women make loads of stupid decisions all the time. And there are other consequences of the above actions: alcohol poisoning and the flu, perhaps. But rape? It is not a man's duty to 'punish' me for my stupid actions. Women and men may judge women who make stupid choices and think 'they got what they deserved', but that's not what it is about is it? No. It's about men thinking women are sex objects, that any woman who is passive enough is theirs for taking, that women are sub-human and do not have the dignity that men have. In cases of rape the blame is ALWAYS on the assailant. It is the perpetrator who cannot keep his hands (and other bits) to himself. It is HIS lack of self-control and his lack of honor for other living creatures.
I was date raped when I was 20. I take responsibility for my stupidness. I acknowledge that I was weak and had poor boundaries. I did not report it because it was so.... murky. I was up for fooling around. I was not up for sex. I said no. He didn't listen. We were in my bed. Am I to blame? If you say yes, defriend me right now.
WHAT? I don't even need to read this entire article to know that women have internalized the hateful misogony of the patriarchy and suffer from self-loathing ideology. Why do women hate each other like this? Rape is NEVER the victim's fault. Even if you're comatose from drinking or you're walking naked down the street. Women make loads of stupid decisions all the time. And there are other consequences of the above actions: alcohol poisoning and the flu, perhaps. But rape? It is not a man's duty to 'punish' me for my stupid actions. Women and men may judge women who make stupid choices and think 'they got what they deserved', but that's not what it is about is it? No. It's about men thinking women are sex objects, that any woman who is passive enough is theirs for taking, that women are sub-human and do not have the dignity that men have. In cases of rape the blame is ALWAYS on the assailant. It is the perpetrator who cannot keep his hands (and other bits) to himself. It is HIS lack of self-control and his lack of honor for other living creatures.
I was date raped when I was 20. I take responsibility for my stupidness. I acknowledge that I was weak and had poor boundaries. I did not report it because it was so.... murky. I was up for fooling around. I was not up for sex. I said no. He didn't listen. We were in my bed. Am I to blame? If you say yes, defriend me right now.
no subject
YES, I'm with you here completely. Though I would like to add that HE or SHE (there are not just male rapists) has as well a huge lack of Selflove. This is not at all meant to excuse this kind of behavior (it's not and never excusable). Rapists are sick and need a lot of psychiatric help. I just have a huge problem with demonizing people and I think it is important to keep in mind, that it's the whole structure of the culture we are living in that creates that kind of illness. The first responsibility holds the rapist - yes! - but I see everyone of us as a culture to be partly responsible as well.
I'm very sorry for your experience and hope you find all the Power you need to heal it!
no subject
Our various cultures are dictated by patriarchal values which render men wholly responsible for rape, not women. Unless & until we change the patriarchal mindset, women are going to be raped. Fact.
no subject
Yes, rape is a crime, a rapist is a criminal and should be persecuted accordingly. The fact that the mind of the rapist was structured ( and in my understanding infected) by patriarchal values because he or she lives in a patriarchal culture, does NOT take the responsibility for his or her action from him/her. And it's NOT and NEVER the responsibility of the victim as a single being. Just to make that clear.
What I was hinting at is that a culture doesn't become patriarchal in and off itself. It is not something that is done to it, it is something that is brought forth and maintained by it (willingly or subconsciously). Therefore the values and ideas present in our culture are maintained and passed on by each and every person in that culture no matter what sex or gender they have. Therefore the responsibility for a rape is not completely one of the rapist hirself, but of the whole culture s/he is part of. And this culture is not something abstract or transzendent, it consists of each and every one of us. Therefore the resposibility to change the value systems and patterns of our culture is held by each and everyone of us as well. Do you get my point?
bb*
Gwydion
no subject
I think you're trying to be too vague and actually nice about things. People are responsible for their own actions (hm, how many times can I say that?). Society does shape us, but we can't hold hands in a circle and wish that all the badness would stop. We do our parts, by getting our shit together, by healing our own wounds, by treating others as we would be treated, by acting our justice in the world, by taking responsibility. Not every one is going to do these things, but they don't get to go around and fuck shit up for the rest of us.
no subject
I don't want to make someone into "the Enemy", because there I see one of the roots of facism/sexism/racism etc.. Criminals are criminals, but they are not as far from you and me as we might like to think of them.
no subject
No, the rapist is WHOLLY responsible. There can be no half measures.
no subject
no subject
bb*
Gwydion
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
And for some of us ~ children for instance ~ we have no power whatsoever to change anything. Trafficked women have no choice & no power. In any culture that seriously oppresses women there is little choice & no chance at all of changing anything.
no subject
Unless I specifically write about The Men, it is never appropriate to ask 'what about the men' when it comes to feminism. When discussing rape, in general, I will never concede that it is necessary to describe the rapist in a s/he context. Now, if I start writing about sexual abuse, then I think it is relevant to do so. But in terms of rape - it is a crisis among women, perpetrated by men.
no subject
Other questions:
If feminism is about equality and the liberty to express one's Self freely (and that is the feminism I am pursueing), how can it not be about men or other genders as well? How can this be limited to be a "women's issue"? After all, don't we live in a culture of divers genders/sexualities/identities? What worth is a feminism that fights only for the rights and liberty of one of these if all of these are suppressed and enchained by Patriarchy? Aren't even men victims of a system that expects them and trains them to be mechanical, emotionsless, "straight" robots?
We just might have a generation problem here.
no subject
I'm interested that you suggest this discussion may be confused by age. I am 66 & our host is half my age & yet we are in agreement!
no subject
no subject
no subject
We're all on the same side ~ if we call ourselves feminists we have to put women & children first. In this particular instance, I don't care about the men. I want to discuss what we began ~ debate the serious crime of male on female rape.
no subject
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
What I am suggesting in regards to "generation" is, that there are different kinds of feminism that were developed at different times and that your arguments remind me of that, what I would call the second-wave feminism (70s-80s), while I am more a third-wave/postmodern/deconstructive feminist (90s-now). There is place for both and both are important for the shifts we are intending to make! It's just our strategies and some basic assumptions that seem to vary - which is a valueable thing in and off itself I think. Diversity is valueable. It just makes it harder to find a consensus in theory and sometimes practice, but I guess we have to live with that from time to time.
bb*
Gwydion
no subject
no subject
And, as an ex Rape Crisis Counsellor, I'd like to hear us calling these women 'survivors' as much as possible. It is how the majority of them prefer to be viewed.
As to the 'Wave' thing ~ Goddess help us all if we are determined to be bound by these distinctions. Learn to surf & save feminism from drowning itself in a sea of semantics!
BTW, so-called second wave feminism began life in the 60's & is still going strong! Diversity is valuable, but is yet another discussion for another time & another place.
I'm still pissed off by the fact that according to a very recent survey a majority of women believe "some rape victims should take responsibility for what happened to them." This is a MASSIVE feminist issue & what this post was addressing!
Respect & BB
(no subject)
no subject
To my mind, it's like bursting into a geometry classroom where it's just been taught that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 and saying, "not if it's drawn on the surface of a sphere!" While that fact is perfectly true and very important, the class on Euclidean geometry will grind to a total halt if it's taken up right there.
no subject
no subject
no subject
Yes, I can understand that and it's a problematic issue. Though while there are times and places that NEED TO BE "women only", I think there are men who are willing to give women and their needs more space, who are willing to be true allies and who in my pov shouldn't be excluded from process nor thinking. That's all I'm saying.
no subject
no subject