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Women say some rape victims should take the blame

WHAT? I don't even need to read this entire article to know that women have internalized the hateful misogony of the patriarchy and suffer from self-loathing ideology. Why do women hate each other like this? Rape is NEVER the victim's fault. Even if you're comatose from drinking or you're walking naked down the street. Women make loads of stupid decisions all the time. And there are other consequences of the above actions: alcohol poisoning and the flu, perhaps. But rape? It is not a man's duty to 'punish' me for my stupid actions. Women and men may judge women who make stupid choices and think 'they got what they deserved', but that's not what it is about is it? No. It's about men thinking women are sex objects, that any woman who is passive enough is theirs for taking, that women are sub-human and do not have the dignity that men have. In cases of rape the blame is ALWAYS on the assailant. It is the perpetrator who cannot keep his hands (and other bits) to himself. It is HIS lack of self-control and his lack of honor for other living creatures.

I was date raped when I was 20. I take responsibility for my stupidness. I acknowledge that I was weak and had poor boundaries. I did not report it because it was so.... murky. I was up for fooling around. I was not up for sex. I said no. He didn't listen. We were in my bed. Am I to blame? If you say yes, defriend me right now.

Date: 2010-02-15 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinya.livejournal.com
But if men are doing the raping, isn't that a "men's issue" too? If women are doing the raping, wouldn't that be a "woman's issue"? I think that framing rape as a "women's issue" does exactly the same thing as our customary language surrounding rape, which focuses on the woman ("she was raped" or "she was raped by...") rather than the perpetrator. It lets the rapist off the hook. Hell no rape is not just a "women's issue," the discussion of which is relegated to women's studies and women's spaces. It should be just as much a "men's issue."

Date: 2010-02-15 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I agree, but I don't think gwydion is referring to men's issues in that sense. I agree that rape actually needs to quit being a woman's issue and become a men's issue. I WISH.

Date: 2010-02-15 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] readthisandweep.livejournal.com
I think you are missing the point. Rape overall is of course a humanitarian issue. But in the context of this debate, here on [livejournal.com profile] ewigweibliche's LJ it is about MEN raping WOMEN & therefore it is A WOMEN'S ISSUE. Sorry if it sounds like I'm shouting at you, but it's important not to confuse the 'issue' by diluting it.

We're all on the same side ~ if we call ourselves feminists we have to put women & children first. In this particular instance, I don't care about the men. I want to discuss what we began ~ debate the serious crime of male on female rape.

Date: 2010-02-15 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinya.livejournal.com
Yeah, I guess my post-gender feminism really has no place in this discussion. Bowing out.

Date: 2010-02-15 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Oh don't bow out!

I want to be post-gender! In theory I am, but I don't see the reality of it yet. Maybe in SF. But the rest of the world? Still figuring out that women aren't property or meat sacks.

Date: 2010-02-15 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinya.livejournal.com
Sure, and I think post-gender isn't quite the right term for what I am. I don't think that gender shouldn't matter or that it's not an important part of our identities. And I don't by any means think it DOESN'T matter now. I know that sexism is very real. I just am less and less interested in feminism as a women-only space. I think that feminism as it is now often enforces gender binaries and polices gender identity and I think that is totally counterproductive.

Date: 2010-02-15 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Yes in theory, but I disagree in real lived life. I don't think feminism is or ought to be a women's only space, but I think dragging in 'what about the men' to a little post like mine is complicating the point with theory.

Date: 2010-02-15 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinya.livejournal.com
I'm sorry. I'll be quiet then.

Date: 2010-02-16 09:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] readthisandweep.livejournal.com

Absolutely. And this is the important ISSUE here. A 'little' post highlighted a current issue that got several of us fired up. A perfect opportunity to debate it. And we end up diluting that topic instead of putting our valuable, feminist energy into exploring what the debate was intended to be about.

It happens all the time & is IMV counterproductive.

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