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Women say some rape victims should take the blame

WHAT? I don't even need to read this entire article to know that women have internalized the hateful misogony of the patriarchy and suffer from self-loathing ideology. Why do women hate each other like this? Rape is NEVER the victim's fault. Even if you're comatose from drinking or you're walking naked down the street. Women make loads of stupid decisions all the time. And there are other consequences of the above actions: alcohol poisoning and the flu, perhaps. But rape? It is not a man's duty to 'punish' me for my stupid actions. Women and men may judge women who make stupid choices and think 'they got what they deserved', but that's not what it is about is it? No. It's about men thinking women are sex objects, that any woman who is passive enough is theirs for taking, that women are sub-human and do not have the dignity that men have. In cases of rape the blame is ALWAYS on the assailant. It is the perpetrator who cannot keep his hands (and other bits) to himself. It is HIS lack of self-control and his lack of honor for other living creatures.

I was date raped when I was 20. I take responsibility for my stupidness. I acknowledge that I was weak and had poor boundaries. I did not report it because it was so.... murky. I was up for fooling around. I was not up for sex. I said no. He didn't listen. We were in my bed. Am I to blame? If you say yes, defriend me right now.

Date: 2010-02-15 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] readthisandweep.livejournal.com
Rape is neither an illness nor a sickness, it is a CRIME. And women are in no way whatsoever 'responsible' for male on female rape.

Our various cultures are dictated by patriarchal values which render men wholly responsible for rape, not women. Unless & until we change the patriarchal mindset, women are going to be raped. Fact.
Edited Date: 2010-02-15 04:40 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-02-15 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwydion1987.livejournal.com
(Do I have to mention that I am a feminist?)

Yes, rape is a crime, a rapist is a criminal and should be persecuted accordingly. The fact that the mind of the rapist was structured ( and in my understanding infected) by patriarchal values because he or she lives in a patriarchal culture, does NOT take the responsibility for his or her action from him/her. And it's NOT and NEVER the responsibility of the victim as a single being. Just to make that clear.
What I was hinting at is that a culture doesn't become patriarchal in and off itself. It is not something that is done to it, it is something that is brought forth and maintained by it (willingly or subconsciously). Therefore the values and ideas present in our culture are maintained and passed on by each and every person in that culture no matter what sex or gender they have. Therefore the responsibility for a rape is not completely one of the rapist hirself, but of the whole culture s/he is part of. And this culture is not something abstract or transzendent, it consists of each and every one of us. Therefore the resposibility to change the value systems and patterns of our culture is held by each and everyone of us as well. Do you get my point?

bb*
Gwydion

Date: 2010-02-15 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I agree that 'we' maintain the culture of patriarchy, but grown adults *are* responsible for their own actions - raised in the patriarchy or not. An child abuser does not get off because she was abused as a child. A rapist IS responsible for his actions, patriarchy or no.

I think you're trying to be too vague and actually nice about things. People are responsible for their own actions (hm, how many times can I say that?). Society does shape us, but we can't hold hands in a circle and wish that all the badness would stop. We do our parts, by getting our shit together, by healing our own wounds, by treating others as we would be treated, by acting our justice in the world, by taking responsibility. Not every one is going to do these things, but they don't get to go around and fuck shit up for the rest of us.

Date: 2010-02-15 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwydion1987.livejournal.com
I agree with you here. The rapist holds most of the resposibility, but s/he still has a history to be taken into account. Not to make hir into the "victim of circumstances" - just to see hir still as human being.
I don't want to make someone into "the Enemy", because there I see one of the roots of facism/sexism/racism etc.. Criminals are criminals, but they are not as far from you and me as we might like to think of them.

Date: 2010-02-15 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] readthisandweep.livejournal.com

No, the rapist is WHOLLY responsible. There can be no half measures.

Date: 2010-02-15 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I am not making any one out to be The Enemy. This post is not about scare tactics, nor do I think every man is a rapist until proven otherwise.

Date: 2010-02-16 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwydion1987.livejournal.com
I'm sorry if you got me wrong, this was NOT an accusation against you or anyone in particular. It's just a common system of thinking that I sensed creeping in at the edges of our conversation (and I'm not excluding my posts here), that I felt like pointing out to keep it out. That's all.

bb*
Gwydion

Date: 2010-02-16 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I think conversations like this will be much easier once we've met in person later this month! Tone and intent in deep topics such as these can be hard to convey - unless we become academicians in our writing styles, and that's not my hope for my LJ.

Mostly, I feel like we were moving away from the basic topic of the original post, which was: women blaming other women for getting raped.

Date: 2010-02-16 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwydion1987.livejournal.com
Yes I think so and am looking forward to it! (though it's the next month ;)).

I have a passion for jumping from a single situation to assumptions and discussions about the bigger pictures I see them interwoven with. If you feel that's inappropriate in a given context, just tell me so.

bb*
Gwydion

Date: 2010-02-15 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] readthisandweep.livejournal.com
I hear what you say but I can't agree with you 100%. The point about patriarchy is it is entrenched in our various cultures. To change it will take a shift in cultural mindsets & that is almost too massive to contemplate. In the meantime, each of us has a responsibility for our own actions regardless of the regime we live under.

And for some of us ~ children for instance ~ we have no power whatsoever to change anything. Trafficked women have no choice & no power. In any culture that seriously oppresses women there is little choice & no chance at all of changing anything.

Edited Date: 2010-02-15 05:43 pm (UTC)

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