theatokos: (Default)
[personal profile] theatokos
A lot has been brewing lately.

I no longer think it is feasible to call myself a Christian. I have identified as one, albeit loosely, since I was twelve. I have dabbled with organized Christianity ever since then. Religion aside, God has always been present, long before ever opening a text and during my many periods of disaffection. I am grateful that my independent mind and heart has allowed me to accept what is good, disregard what is ineffective for me and reject what is flat out rubbish. I do not regret a single moment of all the effort spent seeking God in Christianity. It is a rich, varied tradition built out of the faith - no matter how misguided at times- of those honestly seeking God for more than two thousand years now. It is a powerful tradition that has shaped my intellect and mystic self.

But I think the time has come to sever the anchor line. It's time for me head out into the wide sea beyond the Christian tradition. I've been refusing for some time to choose between Paganism and Christianity, thinking that just because I don't fit neatly into any one category is no reason to leave behind one and choose the other for the sake of labels. Why can't I be both? However, in not choosing the choice has become clear to me. I'm not a Christian. I am too much of a theologian to deny this any longer. Sure, there are liberal Christian traditions that would gladly embrace me, but in my opinion, they're not fully, big C Christian either. That is not to deny that perhaps I and they are little c Christians. But Christianity is a proud tradition and like all traditions it has defined parameters. To be Christian is to accept first that God is Trinitarian -Father, Son and Holy Spirit (this dogma was formulated even before the nature of Christ was sorted out). Secondly that Jesus is God, one in essence with God, yet fully Divine and fully human in nature. Lastly, that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ atones for our sins. It is these three core issues that define Christianity. The Nicene Creed is all you need to agree to, whether you’re of the born-again variety or part of some high liturgical church.

On the surface I can agree with almost all of it, but over the years I find myself translating more and more every time the Creed comes up (the oppressive Father language, especially). My many differences aren't so different from other liberal Christians, but what I'm discovering is that it's not so much each difference or nuanced translation I have that separates me, it's the totality of them that does. Each “yes, but…” or “except for…” isn't what makes me pagan, it's all of them combined that makes it very clear to me that I am unwilling to accept creedal Christianity, nor do I want to be the voice of transformative change. I cannot. If I try I am just starting a new church and I really do not want to do that. The last thing Christianity needs is yet another church.

I'm also tired of swimming up stream in my classes. The one I am currently taking on the Trinity is taxing. I am the lone feminist scholar, I am the lone panentheist, in a class of classical theists. They like their God as Father, even though that doesn't mean God is ontologically male (sure it doesn't). They like their God authoritative, hierarchical and completely transcendent. I just can't agree to any of that. At all. It's like signing up for another Father Figure – desperately needing an authoritative pat on head to approve of my choices and make me whole. As a twelve year old and as a 31 year old, I still think Jesus is telling us that we are already whole, that the Kingdom of God is within and at hand. If that's not immanence, I don't know what is.

What is also illuminating to me is that while I think Jesus is great and I can talk at intelligently and at length about his Divinity or his divinity, I have never once had an experience of him as God, as God God. Maybe this makes me a radical monotheist, maybe this makes me open to other’s experiences of the Divine in other forms and permutations. Whatever the case may be, Jesus is not Lord for me.

Why should I keep beating my head against a wall, looking for inclusion in a group that I don't fit with? I know that no one person believes 100% of all things all the time in any particular religion. I have tried and failed to sync up with traditional Christianity. I think almost 20 years is ample effort. It's time to move on.

This realization is incredibly relieving. Not joyous, for there is a sense of loss too. There is also a rather significant oh shit feeling: I have recently applied for further graduate work, ostensibly in the Christian fold. I love theology, I love religion, I love to study. I now have to rethink what those things look like in light of my revelation. What does Mariology look like outside of the Christian field? Do I go into pagan theology (the need there is great)? I have to prepare myself for new options seen from a new perspective.

I write this to speak change boldly. I cannot speak boldly about change in the world or anything else until I can speak about myself. As always, I am open for discussion.

Date: 2007-02-13 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fictional-emily.livejournal.com
Huzzah!
Such a hard decision, congrats on making it.

Date: 2007-02-14 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Hey thanks! But you do know that I still believe in God, right?

Date: 2007-02-14 12:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fictional-emily.livejournal.com
Hey, i was trying to be nice and supportive. No need to throw this shit in my face!

Date: 2007-02-14 12:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I would never throw shit. I leave that to Adam. And monkies. Ew.

Date: 2007-02-14 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinya.livejournal.com
Oh, wow! Good for you. Not that I ever thought it was wrong for you to call yourself Christian, but I know you've been in a state of conflict about it, and hurray for speaking change!

On the surface I can agree with almost all of it, but over the years I find myself translating more and more every time the Creed comes up (the oppressive Father language, especially.)

Exactly why I had to leave Christianity behind myself. I've been told that the Creed isn't "that important"--but it's the letter of Christian belief. Like you say, too many "yes, but"s.

As a twelve year old and as a 31 year old, I still think Jesus is telling us that we are already whole, that the Kingdom of God is within and at hand.

YES. An unqualified yes. To me, two of the most important messages that Jesus was trying to get across. And two that are lost in a focus on sin and the afterlife.

What does Mariology look like outside of the Christian field? Do I go into pagan theology (the need there is great)?

I hope so. There is such a need for serious, focused, intelligent (and intellectual) theologians like yourself in the pagan community.

Date: 2007-02-14 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Thanks for your encouragement. I feel a little like.... I can't really put my finger on it. Relief, excitment, a bit like a child who finally gets to play with the big kids. This feels very new.

I am grateful that I move on with little bitterness and no regret. I have no intention of abandoning Christianity entirely - if it has served me as well as it has then it's not to be discarded completely. Plus, to do actual theological study is to build on the foundations of Christians, at least in the Western world. I wonder just as much as you about where this decision will take my studies. I'm not scared, per se, just open eyed in a "what now?" kind of way.

Date: 2007-02-14 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hangedwoman.livejournal.com
If this feels like the right decision for you, I'm glad you felt ready to make it.

I have thought occasionally about studying theology, but I always expected I would study it on a larger scale: all Abrahamic religions and non-Abrahamic religions as well. But I have to admit I wonder if academia is truly prepared for pagan theology.

Date: 2007-02-14 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
There is some pagan theology out there, but it is few and far between. Plenty of people write about pagan experience, how-to manuals, etc., but few people seem to map out "if I believe in A, then that leads me to B" in the pagan world. I may be interested in doing that. We'll see.

Date: 2007-02-14 02:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qibitum.livejournal.com
Lee from Feri here. I just friended you.

Each “yes, but…” or “except for…” isn't what makes me pagan, it's all of them combined that makes it very clear to me that I am unwilling to accept creedal Christianity

So, I'm curious what else it is that makes you *choose* Paganism, beyond refusing Christianity?

Further, curiosity-- where & more specifically in what field have you applied for "further graduate work."

Eloquent essay, btw. And yes, there is a great need for more & better pagan theology. I bet you'd be terrific!

Date: 2007-02-14 07:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Howdy!

I don't think I am "refusing" Christianity. It was really more of a coming to terms with what I am and am not, believe and don't believe, than a rejection. I didn't want to sit and write what I really believe because I wanted to separate this idea from a long credo, which I may get around to doing at some point. It would be a challenge to systematically go through and talk about what I mean when I think about Jesus and what I mean by panentheism, by immanence and transcendence, that the Trinitarian model can work in a pagan context, what I mean when I think about salvation and resurrection, etc etc ad infinitum.

As for further grad work, I applied for an MPhil at the University of Wales. There is a woman there, Sarah Boss, who does wonderful work on Mary. She actually has an entire MA program on Marian studies. I really want this knowledge, but I already have an MA so I went for the MPhil route. Apparently, if I get in and if I do well, I can just roll straight into a PhD program. I haven't heard back yet - fingers crossed! There isn't a program like it in the US. Another bonus of doing academic work in the UK is that they are much more open about pagan/new religion studies than over here, from I what I can gather.

Thank you for your encouragement!

Date: 2007-02-14 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qibitum.livejournal.com
You know, I actually dithered over the term "refusing," sensing it wasn't quite right-- I like your clarification. And if you ever get around to this:

systematically go through and talk about what I mean when I think about Jesus and what I mean by panentheism, by immanence and transcendence, that the Trinitarian model can work in a pagan context, what I mean when I think about salvation and resurrection

I'd love to read it--though it could easily be an entire dissertation! On that topic, good luck with your grad app! Fyi, there is a growing academic Pagan Studies community (http://chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/paganstudies/) in the US--but the trick is still getting a job when you get out. Hm, maybe I should start looking for jobs in the UK...

Date: 2007-02-14 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I've been noticing pagan and "other" religious groups growing in academia. In addition to the struggle to find a job (although straight up feminist theology is hard pressed for a job too), it is also a challenge just to study, to find classes and mentors. Doing Mary was hard enough at the GTU - with 3 Catholic schools, an Orthodox institute and feminists at PSR! I had one formal class on Mary, an art history course. It's sort of like swimming up stream. While I know that's part of the joy of the PhD I'd like more resources than I've had.

Date: 2007-02-14 11:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qibitum.livejournal.com
It's sort of like swimming up stream.

Funny, I just made a comment in this thread (http://community.livejournal.com/religion_majors/96135.html?thread=540039#t540039) along rather similar lines...

Date: 2007-02-14 02:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lillitu-shahar.livejournal.com
deep stuff a'brewin' indeed. and surely more to come.

Date: 2007-02-14 02:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qibitum.livejournal.com
Another one! Suddenly all the Fey folk (er, our crop at least:) with LJ's are crawling out of the woodwork. Or maybe I'm finally just paying attention. Anyhow, just added you...

Date: 2007-02-14 05:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lillitu-shahar.livejournal.com
that eelsalad is to blame to be sure! i heard her talking about her LJ, added her, then you mentioned your on the group today.

i am starting to use filters on my LJ and put you in the pagan filter, so i can post about more than parrots...

Date: 2007-02-14 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eelsalad.livejournal.com
Hee hee! :D

Glad to be of service... ;)

Date: 2007-02-14 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Ooh! Put me in the pagan filter, please!

Date: 2007-02-19 06:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queen-of-wands.livejournal.com
Oh no, I'm late to the party! Just discovered this post in my clean out my inbox project.

Date: 2007-02-14 06:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] makeda55.livejournal.com
I clearly need to join this party! Hi all.

(Ellen)

Date: 2007-02-14 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-ogyny.livejournal.com
I've always been partial to a little oppressive daddy talk. get's me in the mood.

Date: 2007-02-14 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Ha! Church must be a good time for you, eh?

Date: 2007-02-14 05:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alizarin71.livejournal.com
This is so amazing. I almost can't believe I'm reading about it in livejournal.

Congratulations on listening to your better angels (so to speak) and making what must have been a hard decision. I am sure that everything you have done up until now has gone to good use, and I can't wait to see what happens now.

Date: 2007-02-14 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I haven't had a chance to talk to you since all of this has been burbling! I'm also not very good at talking about these things. Writing all academic like is safer for me. I can see that I'm going to have to write a big ass post about what I do believe. Because it's not so much that I am rejecting Christianity, but more that I finally recognize where I actually stand.

Also, we got your post card from India last week! I've been meaning to say... thanks!

Date: 2007-02-14 04:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ginger-root.livejournal.com
congrats, friend. well-written, lucid, passionate, perfect!

Date: 2007-02-14 07:21 pm (UTC)

Date: 2007-02-14 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eelsalad.livejournal.com
Wow, awesome post. Thanks for sharing this!

Date: 2007-02-14 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
You're welcome. I feel a little naked now. It's like that cutting away excersize really did something....

Date: 2007-02-14 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goddessofmercy.livejournal.com
wow, ewig, this is big stuff. it sounds like you've reached a place of peace and understanding between your heart and your head about what you want christianity to mean to you. it's weird because my first thought was that i'd love to discuss this with you, but i don't know that i have any questions. you were clear and true when you wrote this and it all makes sense to me. i just offer my ears if you would ever like to speak to me about this or anything else.

i leave you with a quote that seems apropos to me right now: "learn the art of taking your stand on the Truth within. when you live in this Truth, the result is the fusion of the mind and the heart and end of all fears and sorrow." i'll give you one guess about who said this.*g*

Date: 2007-02-14 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
I do feel quite solid, like I came to a conclusion about myself and where I stand. It feels good, clean. I like that quote. Thanks so much for your support. I always enjoy speaking with you about these matters.

Date: 2007-02-15 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goddessofmercy.livejournal.com
I do feel quite solid, like I came to a conclusion about myself and where I stand. It feels good, clean.

it's nice to hear that it's such a centered conclusion for you. i mean there may be mourning, but you've made the right decision for you. as always, it's a pleasure and a privilege to hear your deep thoughts.

Date: 2007-02-19 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queen-of-wands.livejournal.com
I just came across this pagan theologies wiki (http://pagantheologies.pbwiki.com/) and thought you might be interested.

Date: 2007-02-21 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ewigweibliche.livejournal.com
Seems I have to be a member to get to the good stuff?

Date: 2007-02-21 04:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queen-of-wands.livejournal.com
Hm, I'm pretty sure I'm not a member and it looked to me like I could get to a lot of pages by clicking on "Show All Pages" toward the bottom of the frontpage.

As a random test page, can you load this? http://pagantheologies.pbwiki.com/Authority

Date: 2007-02-22 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hangedwoman.livejournal.com
You really should take a look at [livejournal.com profile] gramina's LJ. The two of you are a couple of my favorite thinkers on theology on LJ.

Plus she's a pretty neat person in general.

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