The morning news

[theatokos]

For the 150th anniversary of Marian apparitions at Lourdes, the Pope is granting indulgences. Really?? Indulgences? I am not a Catholic, nor have I studied indulgences much but this smacks of medieval thinking. And theologically, it smacks of playing god. Indulgences are basically permission to get out of or reduce one's time in purgatory. IF one believes in purgatory does one really believe that some man can lessen the time spent in one spot in the afterlife? I know Jesus gave his disciples the authority to loose and bind. Still, it smacks of complete assumption - that we humans could be certain not only of the breakdown of the afterlife but that we might know who is going to be where and for how long.

I really loathe eschatology and avoid it all costs. I suspect at some point I may have to revisit this, but for now I'll just let myself be amazed that the Catholic Church has brought back indulgences. It's like bribing god..... I just don't get it.

Comments

[erinya.livejournal.com]

Do they still sell them? What an awesome scam...

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

I don't think they're being sold..... that wasn't made entirely clear in the newsbrief. They may be given out to people who make pilgrimage to Lourdes.

I don't think the Church would make the mistake of selling them. Again.

[goddessofmercy.livejournal.com]

It's like bribing god..... I just don't get it.

wasn't that one of the points of the protesant reformation?

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

But I don't think the indulgences are being sold this time....
Still. This should be fun.

[hrafntinna.livejournal.com]

I guess it's a sort of Karmic idea .... like supporting a charity, a good cause, an institution that saves the souls of others. Maybe it's outsourcing your little bit of responsibility for spreading the Word.

Just spinning here.

[thekitchenvixen.livejournal.com]

Dont they remember all the trouble they got in for that last time!? *sigh*

[seagull42.livejournal.com]

I don't claim to understand it, either... And I'm really not going to claim understanding of the theology behind it all. But I think it works kinda like this:

If you sin, there are several things you've got to do to get to heaven.

You go to confession, you do the penance assigned, and then you spend the time in purgatory. Doing the penance removes the guilt of the sin, and takes away the need for eternal punishment (in the case of a mortal sin). But there is still the need for what they call "temporal punishment" - which is the time spent in purgatory before you get to go to heaven.

I think it's kind of like this -
You rip off a million dollars and squander it on riotous living. Then you decide you did something wrong, and you're really sorry about it, so you turn yourself in (go to confession).

To actually be forgiven (and have the guilt removed), you also have to do the penance. So maybe that's like working off the debt so you can pay the person back. The person forgives you, (though maybe he's still a little mad and hurt by your betrayal, or doubts your sincerity or something. Or maybe penance is like earning $50,000 as an indicator of good intentions, cause that's all you can get while you're alive).

So that's all fine and good - but you still might have to go to jail (go to purgatory) for awhile as well.

Being granted an indulgence is kinda like time off for good behavior. In this case, you show your sincerity by going to visit Lourdes (or some other place sacred to the Lady). Or, if unable to do so, you at least pray to/through her.

An indulgence isn't a "Get of Jail Free" card - it's not permission to go commit a sin. It's acknowledgment that you really are sorry for what you did.

The problem in the middle ages is that they really did try to turn it into a bribe - pay off the "police" (priests/church) and they'll make it good for you. With no real sincerity about what you'd done. (You can go read Proverbs for more thoughts on bribes... :-) )

Here's one place to start to read more about indulgences (it's where I got the ideas to try the summary above):
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

[qibitum.livejournal.com]

It's magick.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

How so? I completely believe that much of Christianity is magical, I do not see the comparison here. It certainly wasn't so in Middle Ages, that was just flat out capitalism.