VP debates

[theatokos]

She didn't choke.


I hate to say it, but.... I even think she won.

Comments

[jesamin.livejournal.com]

I think she didn't choke either...but I don't think she won.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

A tie then?

[automata.livejournal.com]

no way.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

I mean, I loved Biden.... but much of American doesn't think like me. I thought Palin did really well. She folksy, but just enough on point, she didn't choke, she shared McCain's smugness.... I don't know. I think this will boost the McCain/Palin ticket.

And I'm not happy about that.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

On point? Not remotely.

But then, to be fair, she did warn us that she wasn't going to stay on point.

[livingdeadpan.livejournal.com]

My cue! [Electoral College Pool (http://www.mungermack.com/pools/usa/)]

It was entertaining, but Palin winning? I had low expectations for her, and she met them.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Well then, my expectations were lower! In earlier interviews she couldn't even string a sentence together! I honestly thought this was going to be an embarassment and it was just.... a debate.

[livingdeadpan.livejournal.com]

However, by the expectations I have for my vice president, she falls far short.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Ok, I just clicked on your poll. You really think that Alaska is going to go for Obama?

REALLY? Dood, you are optimistic! I like your spirit!

[livingdeadpan.livejournal.com]

Eh? I don't have Alaska showing either way, I think, though any "results" right now are fake anyway.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Hm, perhaps I didn't do something right, but when I clicked on Alaska it came up Blue and said Obama for three electoral votes.

[livingdeadpan.livejournal.com]

Ah. You're doing your own picks (whether you knew it or not ;).

The first time you click a state it goes blue as though you were picking Obama. Click it again to change it to McCain.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Also, how is it that you have scored highest so far on my quiz?? You are new to me! Perhaps your intuition is just very sharp. Or you have read all my back issues. ;)

[livingdeadpan.livejournal.com]

Semi-educated guesses. :D

[(Anonymous)]

You're right she didn't choke. There was no way she was going to choke. It ws very controlled to make sure she couldn't. She was composed the whole time (not a surprise), but was frequently often spouting a rehearsed and memorized answer (sometimes she was obviously recalling her lines). In addition she frequently evaded questions. Biden did well, he didn't over due it, but was tough, critical, harsh and stayed on point. I don't believe in winning debates most of the time. Sometimes one person does better than the other, but I wouldn't call that winning unless one person obviously loses it.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

No, you're right. There really is no winning or losing these things. She was quite evasive, but sadly, that's what I've come to expect from these things. She did sound super rehearsed. Even her accent seemed toned down a bit.

(Is this Twig?)

[(Anonymous)]

yep :-) yes, she toned down the accent. My favorite parts I think were where climate change was maybe man made maybe normal cycle, many man made but not really man made blame China, etc and how she tried to make it sound like she supports civil unions and has a diverse family. That was funny.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Ugh. The civil unions part made me mad at both of them. The fact that Biden and Obama both say they are against gay marriage... ugh. I mean, let's just say that only churches get to officiate marriages and the state acknowledges civil unions. The state shouldn't be involved in my sacred arrangements at all!

But it sucks that Biden and Obama have to say they're against gay marriage just to not piss people off.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. I think that a civil union is the legal arrangement. "Marriage" is the spiritual/emotional/etc part of the relationship and should not be involved with government. In France (which doesn't have separation of church and state) along with many other countries, a church wedding is not legal. Everyone gets married at the courthouse and then if you want a religious ceremony of any kind, fine. They think it's totally nutter that we honor religious ceremonies as legal arrangements, and we're the ones who allegedly have separation of church and state. Hm.

[automata.livejournal.com]

Where is that accent from exactly??? I was trying to figure that one out. Is that Minnesotan or something??

[erinya.livejournal.com]

She didn't win with undecided voters, that's for sure. CNN and CBS's snap polls have Biden 51%, Palin 36% and Biden 46%, Palin 21% respectively.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Hm, maybe my "she won" idea was just my fear speaking. Those statistics are relieving.

[howilearned.livejournal.com]

I was going to site the polls Erinya did as well. But even if it winds up being a tie, I believe that to be a win for the Dems.

Other key bits of information from the snap polls: The only category Palin was higher than Biden was "likability." Biden scored higher marks all around, but perhaps most notably in 2 categories: Clarity in expressing views (52 percent to Palin's 36 percent) and readiness to assume presidency (87 to 42.)

8 years of Bush's folksiness failed to equal good leadership. This election is taking place in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. I don't think likability isn't going win this one.

All this said, the next couple days will true up those poll numbers. These polls are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I highly recommend fivethirtyeight.com to cut through the bullcrap polls quoted in the media. Good news is that it appears Obama is pulling into the lead significantly and, while we can expect that lead to shrink, that he'll come out on top, barring any force majeure.

[chiv.livejournal.com]

Oh hardly.
Almost every question she answered with anecdotes and inflammatory exclamation devoid of any substance or detail. How many times did she use her allotted time for one question to either refer back to the previous one or back to some unrelated point about 'Energy'? She's charismatic and opinionated but it's not backed up.
Biden wasn't too bad, but suffered from being a stuffy old white man giving out the necessary facts and figures but lacking the necessary charisma. His one singular moment that the the sentimentalists are going to pick up on was the moment he appeared to crack when talking about raising his sons after the death of his wife and daughter. I remain cynical.

If Palin 'won' it's because viewers were start struck, and entirely ignored the political debate.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

True! So true. She never answered questions. I think I was just expecting her not to speak in complete sentences like her recent interviews.

I was actually quite touched when Biden mentioned his family and it didn't seem like a ploy. It was a great counter to her All Mother All the Time image.

[donkeyfly.livejournal.com]

i totally agree with chiv. if you didn't really listen closely to what she was saying she sounded good, if you tried to follow the lines of her arguments, it was very clear that she had none. i think everyone involved with this debate was careful not to appear mean-spirited and as a result they were overly careful with her and just let her non-answers slide.

i was really nervous that she would do so badly that i would feel bad for her even though i don't like her. i was equally worried that she would come out on top and then we would be back to square one. since neither thing happened i felt like it was a victory. i understand biden not being able to go after her without appearing like a total jerk, but it just goes to show how completely out of place she is if people aren't willing to engage her in debate (suitable to someone seeking the office of vice president) just out of politeness.

i totally believe that everything in these debates is pre-rehearsed although i did believe that biden's emotions were honest. but i think he purposefully steered himself to a place where he knew that he would become emotional.

[ladyartemisa.livejournal.com]

she didnt choke and she couldnt have because she only answered what she had rehearsed and didnt actually answer any questions.

eventhough she didnt choke she wasnt good either.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Good point. I think I'm just afraid.

Also, I can't say how sad it is that I am so disappointed in a female candidate.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, this sucks. I don't think it's ridiculous to say that Sarah Palin is setting women back a decade or two. Ew.

[miss-ogyny.livejournal.com]

NO...she didn't win...how do you win a debate when you don't answer the effing questions!

[alizarin71.livejournal.com]

I am just now surfacing enough from work to catch up on livejournal, so excuse me if this is old now....

I have to say, I was buzzed for at least a day after watching the VP debate. Palin was clinging to catch phrases and talking points like they were a life preserver from the Titanic. She ladled on the cheesiness, evaded questions, gave murky answers, and failed to goad Biden. I was left thinking that she would certainly appeal to the socially-conservative base, maybe even energize it, but that those not already in her camp wouldn't be swayed. Biden was categorical, clear, and concise without being mean. He made his case to the viewers, while she winked, shrugged, and worked her charm. She was unable to shake her ticket loose of the Bush legacy, while he hammered on all its weak spots (war, economy, Cheney the troll under the bridge).

I liked what he said about gay unions: Gay couples should have all the civil rights of heterosexual couples, while leaving it to the churches to say if they'd call it "marriage" or not. Since I already know several churches that would bless such a union on the spot, I have no worries. Part of what I liked about it was that he didn't miss a beat, that he was able to sound clear and grounded.

So, yeah... I thought it was great. At least Biden's energizing his own base (taking myself as an example), coming off as experienced, steady, generous in spirit--and not one bad gaffe. Palin was perky, gosh-wow disarming, petty, irrelevant, and mean. I'll be curious to see how it plays out.