Arizona's immigration law

[theatokos]

I've been asked my thoughts on the Arizona immigration law. It's impressive how well informed people are about US news. Of course, after living in the US my standards for informed people are pretty low. I have to say that I don't know much about it. snowcalla is basically my only source at this point! And the Daily Show. Hee. I figure the Economist will clue me in next week too. It's hard to get too worked up about it, even though I think it's a terrible law. But, of course, I do have some opinions!

Firstly, I'm wary of spouting off on Arizona. I think this law is a reaction to specific issues in the state. I have always been wary of people spouting off about Alaska and it's issues, including opening ANWR and wolf culling. Most people get all worked up, but don't really understand the complexities of the issues. (And do not get me started on the idea of 'untouched wilderness.') So I'm going to ignore Arizona, since I don't know anything about it.

Secondly, and I'm not defending the law, mind, but if the US as a whole won't deal with the issue of immigration, then I guess the citizens of Arizona have to take the lead. Even if Congress start debating this issue I can't see any real change occurring. It will be like health care - a start. But as we've seen, even though everyone will get health care, but it's still at the mercy of the insurance business and the medical-industrial complex. I see the same thing happening in immigration issues: band-aid beginnings. Unless the US is willing to pay the REAL COST of food corporate farms, producers, meat packers, restaurants, etc will continue to hire (and in many cases BUS IN) illegal immigrants to do the work that US citizens refuse to do for such low pay in such abysmal conditions. Are you willing to pick produce in the California sun for less than a dollar a boxful? Yeah, I didn't think so. And are you willing to pay $9 for strawberries? Or $11/lb for sustainably raised, ethically slaughtered, grass fed beef? No? Then chances are good you won't want to pay that much for feedlot fed, mechanically slaughtered meat when US citizens are working the cattle yard.

My liberal compatriots in the United States are all up in arms over this Arizona bill - and my conservative friends want stricter enforcement - but if they/we are serious about creating immigration reform then we've got to look at the much bigger and more uncomfortable picture.

Comments

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Death row inmates are already in the world. That is why they are treated better than the unborn. I said this on your post: when women are valued and treated as seriously as the unborn are THEN we can talk about talking the rights of the unborn seriously.

I am vehemently against requiring an ultrasound for an abortion. There may be the occasional woman who just goes 'oops, time for another abortion' but most women -whether or not they feel guilt or shame (and they don't need to)- take the decision quite seriously. No one is all 'YAY ABORTION! Woo-hoo!" Why should a scared teenager have to see an ultrasound? Why should a rape victim have to see an ultrasound? Why should a family that already has 4 kids and low paying jobs that don't provide maternity leave and/or decent health insurance and the birth control malfunctioned have to see the ultrasound? Why? There is no good reason.

Make every child wanted before we bring every child into the world.

[so-sporktastic.livejournal.com]

I had a comment for this but deleted it before posting. I just didn't want you to think I'm ignoring this.

Your opinion will not change. And neither will mine. And only one of us can be right regarding the fundamental point - do unborn children have a right to life that supersedes the mother's right to convenience? (Rape/incest/mother's health cases are reported by the Guttmacher Institute to account for a MINUSCULE percentage of abortions, and "convenience" is the biggest reason.) I do not believe so. At all. In any case.

When I think about murder, I think that lives are wasted. That these victims have grown for nine months inside their mothers. That they have been nurtured and hopefully loved, able to grow to adulthood. And somebody, for no reason that justifies the action, has decided that that time, that attention, that affection and love and care - that that is worthless. I wish that murderers would think about that before they commit a murder. That they truly know what they're doing. And I think that anybody having an abortion should know the black&white version of what they're doing, because there is ALWAYS an alternative to abortion. ALWAYS. Whether people choose to pursue that alternative or not, it still exists.

Make men and women know exactly what they're doing and be personally responsible, knowing that their actions can, even with birth control, result in pregnancy, before they get busy. As long as there are selfish people, there will be unwanted children, who are unwanted because their parents do not want to alter their lives.

[msmidge.livejournal.com]

What exactly is "convenience," in this context? How does the Guttmacher Institute define it? Are they polling women who have had abortions and asking them if they did it based on "convenience"?

[so-sporktastic.livejournal.com]

I had previously found a statistic page that broke down general reasons into more specific ones, but was unable to find it on my cursory check of the Guttmacher page. I've got to write a paper this weekend for my Legal Ethics class, so I'll let you know if I come across it in the course of my sourcing.

Here's the closest thing I could find - it's not specifically what I'd found before (that was in table format) but here you go anyway.

The most common reasons given to "Awww!" people into excusing abortion are for 1) mother's health 2) rape and 3) incest. Those 3 are 3 of the 4 LEAST common self-reported reasons for procuring an abortion.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.html
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf

Nevermind, I found it. It's Table 2 on the PDF, page 4.

TABLE 2. Percentage of women reporting that specified reasons contributed to their
decision to have an abortion, 2004 and 1987
Reason 2004 1987
(N=1,160) (N=1,900)
Having a baby would dramatically change my life 74 78*
Would interfere with education 38 36
Would interfere with job/employment/career 38 50***
Have other children or dependents 32 22***
Can’t afford a baby now 73 69
Unmarried 42 na
Student or planning to study 34 na
Can’t afford a baby and child care 28 na
Can’t afford the basic needs of life 23 na
Unemployed 22 na
Can’t leave job to take care of a baby 21 na
Would have to find a new place to live 19 na
Not enough support from husband or partner 14 na
Husband or partner is unemployed 12 na
Currently or temporarily on welfare or public assistance 8 na
Don’t want to be a single mother or having relationship problems 48 52*
Not sure about relationship 19 na
Partner and I can’t or don’t want to get married 12 30***
Not in a relationship right now 11 12
Relationship or marriage may break up soon 11 16*
Husband or partner is abusive to me or my children 2 3
Have completed my childbearing 38 28**
Not ready for a(nother) child† 32 36
Don’t want people to know I had sex or got pregnant 25 33*
Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child 22 27*
Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion 14 24***
Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus 13 14
Physical problem with my health 12 8**
Parents want me to have an abortion 6 8
Was a victim of rape 1 1
Became pregnant as a result of incest <0.5 <0.5
*p<.05. **p<.01. ***p<.001. †This was a write-in response in 2004 and 1987. Note: na=not applicable, because
survey questions were not comparable. Source: 1987—reference 4.

[msmidge.livejournal.com]

I think summarizing all of women's experiences except for rape and incest as "convenience" is really disrespectful to women.

I am graduating with a Ph.D. in ethics and sociology of religion. I am not a "roar I have no idea what I'm talking about" person either. I don't think it's fair, though, to set the issue up as though one person's personal experience is worth more than another's. I respect what you've gone through to arrive at the opinion you now hold. I would ask that you consider that other people have also gone through equally challenging experiences and come up with a different opinion.

[so-sporktastic.livejournal.com]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am graduating with my B.A. in Sociology-Criminal Justice in a month and intend to pursue a career in family practice law, although I have a major passion for constitutional law.

My views on abortion are the way they are and especially strong because I nearly aborted my child, who is 3 now. At the time, I was 19, unmarried, unemployed&had a very difficult pregnancy which prevented employment, living 1000+ miles away from family, living 1500+ miles away from my child's father, and halfway through my college degree. I'm also a sexual assault survivor. I quit my employment to move home to be with family (still 1500+ miles apart from my child's father). Some of my situation has changed, and some has not. My life has changed significantly because I accepted the situation that I had instigated by having sex in the first place, and I am wholeheartedly a better person for doing so, both in the way I live my life now in both behavior, example, and thought, as well as my aspirations for the future, which are what they are because of my experience.

I find the need to explain at least some of my background and experience and "credentials" so I don't come off as one of those ROAR I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT AND I HAVE NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE ISSUE BUT I'M GONNA MAKE MY OPINION KNOWN ANYWAY people. :)

[so-sporktastic.livejournal.com]

And re: death row inmates.

I'm sorry, but if a person has horrifically murdered someone, they deserve A HELL OF A LOT WORSE than the equivalent of abortion. Innocent child within the womb is, IMO, "worth more" than a criminal and murderer, especially one who is unrepentant for his or her actions.

Semi-OT but I read the book "Dead Man Walking" when my mom still had her Mommy Van, which broke when I was 11, so I read it before then. I'm not unfamiliar with capital punishment or gruesome and sadistic criminal cases.

Connor Petersen's life was worth so much more than his father Scott's life.